2012 Marzocchi 55 Micro Switch TA vs. Fox TALAS 36 RLC Kashima

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by herzalot, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

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    I am fed up trying to get the proper ride characteristics from my 2011 Fox TALAS 36 RLC Kashima Super Bling 3000. I've had it disassembled and properly and professionally re-assembled (which did improve the quality of the travel). Turns out it was shipped almost dry - something that seems to be common, if you read the reviews.

    I've adjusted everything there is to adjust in every conceivable combination, but to get the plushness I expect, I have to put up with a ton of fork dive. Recommended air for my weight (210) is 80psi. What a joke. That allows about 3" of travel, and shakes me to the core. I need to run it at about 60psi to take advantage of its travel. My 08 TALAS wasn't like this. The fork does look cool, however.

    So - that said, has anyone tried the new Marzocchi described in the thread title? I am hearing/reading great things about the 2011 and 2012 Marzocchis, and the company's reputation is improving again. Meanwhile, Fox' customer service reputation is diving faster than my fork.

    Your .02? :-k
     
  2. kamaekia

    kamaekia Overpaid Grunt

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    I have a 2011 Marzocchi 55 Micro TI. I have had it for about 6 months now. After spending some time trying to get it set up properly, it has been a really nice fork. The website and instruction manual are somewhat lacking in assistance, but I called Marzocchi up directly. They have an office over in the Santa Clarita Valley and they were super helpful on the phone. They even said I could come over anytime and they would set me up. So, plus one on their customer service!

    It is a very solid fork, I don't get any fork twitching and am I at 230 lbs. The fork feels plush, but I don't go through all 6 inches of travel. I am usually in the 3-4 inch range, at most. I would describe my riding as cross-country to all mountain riding, so I don't think I would go through all 6 inches.
     
  3. kaboomims

    kaboomims New Member

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    What do you mean by "shipped dry". No fork oil in it? What did fox have to say?

    Ian
     
  4. Von-Diggity

    Von-Diggity Moderator

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    I had a similar problem with my 36 Float on my Firebird. In order to get decent small bump compliance I had to run lower than recommended air pressure. Once I lowered the air pressure, then I would bottom out the fork constantly. I thought about sending it to Push for modification, but instead I purchased a Marz 55 RC3Ti fork. So much better with a coil/open bath fork. I have been told that the air forks they have work really well and that the reliability issues are now taken care of. Of course the coil is going to be a bit heavier than an air fork (close to 1/2 lb), but it does work really well.
     
  5. tbarnesarc

    tbarnesarc STUPIDASS

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    Herz,

    I don't really know anything about the 55 Micro TST TA but I think I already told you that I have a couple of buddies that are running the 55 RC3 TI and swear by it. I know you want the travel adjust though. My vote is tosell the Fox so I can finally stop hearing you complain about it. ha ha. In all honesty If I had the option to get a 55 vs a 36 I would take the 55 any day. Good luck and let me know what you figure out.
     
  6. Schecky

    Schecky SoCalMTBubbs

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    I have the 44 Micro TI and love it.
    As others have said, it takes a while to dial it in, due to poor documentation and a ton of adjustment options.
    However, once you do, GREAT ride!
     
  7. Jeff

    Jeff 1 Corinthians 15:3-4

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    2011 44 TST2 Air here with the 150 mm conversion. Gideon at Marz was great to deal with and offered this fork as a trade from my old AM1. So far it has been treating me well. I find I am not missing all the extra features on the more expensive models. For an air fork am surprised at the plushness. Cannot compare to the Talas since I've not owned one. I ride a variety of stuff from XC/AM to rocky, technical singletrack and am really happy with the 44. Zero issues. If anything, the quality is better with this fork than with my Italian-made AM1.
     
  8. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

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    I sent it back to Fox because the lockout threshold adjuster didn't work right out of the box. They fixed it and sent it back. I decided to have Steve at Garageworks customize the fork for me, as best he could. He told me there was 5cc oil where there should have been 20cc. The fork is much smoother after he went through it, but I still can't get the kind of plushness I have come to expect without substantial fork dive - which is better than running it too firm. I have a 2009 32 Fox TALAS R 150 (15mm thru axle) that runs much better than the 2011 36 TALAS Kashima Super Bling 3000. But - still a little flexy laterally for my tastes - plus I like the slacker head angle that the 160 provides.

    I think the Marzocchi nickel stanchions look like shite. Slap a "Huffy" sticker on that bad boy. BUT - that's what I'm gonna get. Anyone wanna relieve me of my Fox? Taylor?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2011
  9. Salespunk

    Salespunk New Member

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    Have you thought of removing the TALAS portion? I run a 2012 36 Float that took about 20 hours to break in, but it is super plush now. There has been a lot of discussion about the TALAS ruining the feel of the fork. Everyone does rave about the Marz forks this year.
     
  10. Robo

    Robo No dabs.

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    My experience with a 2011 Talas 36 sounds similar to yours: It was without a doubt the worst fork I've owned in nearly 20 years of suspension. There was little to no movement on small and medium bumps and horrible dive once you overcame the stiction. Here I had a fork with more travel than ever before and it was beating my arms and shoulders up on simple rides and sending me off my lines like a rigid fork. How this Talas got a four star review on one mtbr reviewer's site and a great writeup in Bike Mag is beyond me. I had ISOTuned upgrade the seals and rebuild it only a month or so after I bought it, but there was little improvement.

    After another couple of months of frustration, I decided to convert the Talas to a Float as the travel adjust was not really used enough to justify it, and I knew there were a ton more internal seals with the Talas creating stiction. At the same time my shop installed the new Fox seals, and now it is simply acting the way I would expect, and I could feel it instantly riding down my driveway and dropping off a curb. Smooth action over small and medium bumps, hugging the terrain, consistent movement, far less dive. I've heard previous Talas forks didn't suffer from all the problems I had, so I'm not sure what changed so drastically.

    I'd bought a Marz 55 RC3 Ti coil fork to use for a while, and that is great on the really rough stuff and big hits but was really "notchy" on the small stuff. That might break in over time though. But for my standard rides the Float feels better. Only issue: It's a little squeaky on big hits.
     
  11. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

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    Steve at Garageworks went through my fork and took care of all of the stiction, so that hasn't been the problem. It is the design of the fork that is the problem. The ramp up is too severe - meaning you have to run it soft to enjoy any plushness, but you still don't get full travel. Bottom line is it beats the spit out of me, even at soft settings. I ran my 2009 TALAS 32 150 (15mm ta) on the Luge today and it was 10x better and more confidence inspiring than the 36 Blingmaster. I talked to Joe at BikeCo, and he has a reasonable improvement figured out for the 36 TALAS, but I'm over it. I am sure the Floats are better.

    I will try the Marzocchi, because I am still looking for a top quality 160mm fork. I'll post my findings so that others don't have to waste $1000 bills buying poor designs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2011
  12. Salespunk

    Salespunk New Member

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    There is also a known problem now where oil is migrating into the air chamber. Apparently the new foam wiper at the bottom of the fork is the culprit. Once removed the problem goes away. Some people have found as much as 40cc's of oil in the air chamber where there should only be 5. You might want to check this out since your symptoms sound very similar to how the fork would act with a smaller air chamber.

    As to the TALAS, no matter how much it is lubed the new design seems to add a LOT of stiction. I have not heard of anyone being happy with the new TALAS. Have you ridden a new Float that is broken in? Would probably be good to feel them back to back before you spend the money on a new fork.
     
  13. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Salespunk. Stiction isn't a problem. After Steve went through it at Garageworks, it is buttery from beginning of the stroke to about 4." It is super buttery uphill in the 120 setting. All the oil and seals are now correct. The problem I have is the designed spring rate. Plush = Dive. More air = beat up arms and minimal travel (with any and every combination of LSC and rebound damping).

    I am sure the Float has a better feel than the TALAS, but I can't find too many people willing to loan me a Float to go try, or loan me an XL bike with a 2012 Float Kashima on it. I just think Fox decided on a different suspension rate for these forks than the previous versions. It doesn't suit my style. I'm moving on. See Craigs list.
     
  14. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

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    Marzocchi ordered. It will be in on Tuesday (allegedly). I'm riding Fontana this weekend on the big bike with Fox 40, but I have the following week off, so the Marzocchi review will be coming soon. My prediction? I'll be dissatisfied and give up, keeping the Fox 32 TALAS (150mm) forever as the best fork of the lot. My hope? That the Marz will be the ultimate 160mm fork I've been searching for for four years. (You try writing a proper sentence with three "for"s in a row!). Wish me luck! Donations accepted.
     
  15. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

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    2012 Marz 55 Microswitch TA installed this evening, courtesy of The Bike Co. They gave me a terrific price on the fork and the installation and installed while I waited. Joe rocks, and he knows Marzocchi suspension better than anyone! Kara's customer service was superb (she does like to chat). Demo ride coming up Saturday. If I hate it, it goes on the market and I quit trying to find 160mm forks. My Fox TALAS 32 (150) works pretty darn well. The Marz is not as cool looking as the Fox 36 Blingmaster, but let's see if it suits my needs/tastes better. I will post initial impressions Saturday afternoon/evening. :bang:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2011
  16. 92se-r

    92se-r Active Member

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    seriously, try the lyrik with a dh damper. you can tune out the brake dive and have some plushness on square edged hits when it blows off. great damper. and relatively easy to tune.
     
  17. Bryguy17

    Bryguy17 A little Shaggy

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    what he said. lyrik DH is a fantastic fork. easy to tune, easy to work on, readily available parts. plushness is very good, even if you're running higher compression levels (I run 8 clicks LSC and 6 of HSC). anything that it is doing that you don't like, you can probably tune out with just the mission control.
     
  18. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

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    Initial Impressions of the 2012 Marzocchi 55 Micro Switch TA... best fork I've ridden.

    I did a test run today on Rock-It and Lynx in Aliso. Rock-it is a great fork test run because it has that fast rock garden with big holes AND it has quick turns, some off camber and a couple of small jumps. Test sled = '09 Yeti 575 (XL). Test rider - 210 lbs. Recommended air for my weight was 125lbs. I started with 105, went to 115, then backed off to 110.

    The new Marz was as plush as a coil fork on the small trail chatter. The travel adjust is simple, effective and instantaneous. You don't have to unweight the bike to get it back to 160. I only used the lower setting climbing Cholla. On the short punchy climbs on Coyote, and on the lower and upper fireroads, I kept it at 160.

    My first test to get the setting right is to drop off that little rock jump drop at the top of Lynx (maybe 3' to flat). That helps me get the air pressure right. I bottomed out at 105, so I upped it to 115 and tried again. About 90%. Let's go!

    The fork was excellent side to side while hammering the quick little turns at the top of Rock-it. Then, the rock garden. While it didn't erase the holes completely, it was much better than the 2011 36 TALAS Kashima, the 2012 36 TALAS 160, my 09 Fox 32 TALAS 150 and the POS Magura Wotan I owned in 2008. I used 85% of my travel and did not have brake dive. The lower turns were ridiculously fun and the bike handled great. I headed back up Cholla, adjusted the air pressure to 110, upped the rebound a click and blasted down Lynx. Yahoo! My confidence has returned.

    This thing was awesome right out of the box. If it breaks in and becomes even more plush, I won't be able to stop grinning. The new Fox 36 chassis might have the Marz beat by a tiny margin on quick turns, but it's .3 lb lighter, so that might be the difference. I think the Fox might get the nod in the bottom-out department as well. The last 5-10mm of travel on the Fox didn't kick back. When I bottomed the Marz, it definitely punched back a tad. Could be my rebound setting was a bit fast.

    The suspension quality of the 2012 Marz is better than any air fork I've ridden and beats many coil forks. My initial impression is very positive. I'll go pound it around tomorrow and report back if I notice anything different. I'm psyched! I just hope the reliability is there.
     
  19. dstepper

    dstepper (R.I.P.) Over the hill

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    If it is anything like the older Zokes they don't really get super plush until after that first oil change.

    I hope this does not happen.


    Marzocchi in financial difficulty


    News coming through from an Italian newspaper suggest Marzocchi have major financial troubles and may close the MTB side of things.
    More news when we get it.

    http://www.linformazione.com/

    The FIOM-CGIL warns of Bologna for Tenneco-Marzocchi: home wind of a trade union was “difficult situation, complicated by the general crisis”, but yesterday’s meeting with the management and they ‘arrived at ‘announced intention to “sell or close the historical activity’ related to mountain biking, mountain biking, result in large revenues and prestige of the past and today, although regrettable for a clear and unable to strategic management, strongly blamed for the loss of business accumulated in three years, about 22 million U.S. dollars. ” To tell you how things are made, and the “great concern” about the announcement yesterday, and ‘a note of the FIOM-CGIL. And the problem is not alone. The union also complained about the apparent “non-compliance of the business plan,” especially for “lack of investment announced,” the inability ‘of marginality create’ win-and keep new customers

    Dean
     
  20. D man

    D man Ride til u smile

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    I hope this doesn't happen, I still like riding my 04 Z150 fork. It still kicks butt.
     

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